Al Turtle's Relationship Wisdom :: What to do when He/She Leaves?

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What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Al Turtle on Tue 08 Mar 2005 07:51 PM PST | Permanent Link

What to do when she (he) leaves

Assuming you want her (him) back

By © Al Turtle 2002
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People frequently come to me with this problem. Some years ago I came up with an answer and have not felt the need to change it. It works. Follow the four steps.

1. GIVE UP ALL SIGNS OF PUSHING.

This is very important. Your partner is already moving away. Anything you do to push them will tend to make them move away faster and further. Stop anything that might be construed as pursuing or pressing them. If your instinct is to call them twice a day, start calling them once a week. If your instinct is to send them a gift, do it once a month. If you are trying to find out what they are doing by asking other people, don’t. Leave them alone a lot. Let your partner contact you when they are ready. (See Reliable Membership Article.)

2. SURVIVE

Do not be surprised that you may feel awful, or sick, or depressed. This is normal when you feel left behind. The feeling will go away – with a lot of time. We all can live alone. It's not good for us, but we can. So, in the meantime, continue to live your life. Go to work. Eat well. Sleep well. Do more exercise. (It will help you sleep. It will help with any depression you may feel.) Be among friends. While you do this, you might consider staying away from friends of the other gender. If you cannot sleep or seem very depressed, see your doctor. Some medication may be helpful for a while. If your partner speaks to you, don’t tell them how hard a time you are having. That will probably not get you the sympathy you want. Just say something like, “Well, it is tough.” And say no more.

3. WORK ON YOUR SELF, VISIBLY

See a counselor. Read books. Talk your problems over with friends, your pastor, your priest, your rabbi. Learn what you can. Read my paper on Using Turtle Logic and The Two Walls. Chances are there is a lot for you to learn. Most often when a partner leaves, they have been planning it for a long time. You, on the other hand may have been taken by surprise. What led you to be so unaware of your partner? What lead you to be so unaware that they were in distress enough to consider leaving you? Try to not blame yourself. All relationship trouble takes two. And so, work on yourself.

And do this work so that your partner knows. The chances are one of the reasons they are leaving you is because they believe you will never change. By visibly working on yourself, they have to wonder what you are doing and who you are becoming. That is much better than their continuing to believe that you will never change.

When I say “visibly” I mean that you take opportunities to let them know that you are doing something. If they call, say you only have a little time as you have to get to your counseling appointment. Say, “By the way, I’ve been reading a book on marriage. It’s interesting.” Remember to follow Rule #1, and not say much.

4. BE AVAILABLE MINIMALLY WHEN YOUR PARTNER ASKS FOR CONTACT

It is reasonable that your partner will try to contact you. They may ask for a chat. Ask, “How long?” Agree to give them half that time. They may ask for dinner together. Agree to give them a short one. They may ask for you to spend the night. Stay only through the evening. Get used to this. Think that you are trying to get a deer to come out of the forest and eat from your hand. You have to earn (or in this case, re-earn) their trust and never loose it again.

Good luck.

P.S. And when he/she stops the leaving and starts tentative connecting or checking you out, be ready. For more on this subject, particularly once you have managed to get your partner to slow down their leaving, you might want to read “Out of the Blue” means “Read the Tea Leaves”.

You will probably also want to check out my Map of Relationships to put a clear rramework around what is going on and what your choices are. Being stubborn, i.e. doing what you have been doing will, probably lead back to the leaving problem. Being stubborn about learning to do new things seems to be the only path.

Notes:

Click here for the Archive of Comments to this article.
Click here for “all” my articles on Clingers. Avoiders.
Remember, this is just one of the five major problems in relationships. When you solve this one, there are the other four in front of you. Take a look at How to Use this Website, or Using my logic on relationships, or Where to Start. The most comprehensive place to start is my Map of Relationships.
Good luck.

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Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Joey on Thu 03 Jul 2008 04:51 PM PDT | Permanent Link

Hi Al,

All this sounds like it makes good sense! I've been reading through the comments, and it seems like most of the people who comment are still in the throes of the hard times, which also makes sense. I'm just wondering how often these strategies do work. Must be a pretty good method, considering how many couples you've worked with, but reading the comments has me a little discouraged. And I'm sure it all depends on where couples are and how hard they work. Just curious, because in all the comments I don't see anyone who's written back to say "Hey, we're really happy now!" (You've possibly figured out by now that I am one of the many visiting your page in the throes of misery.) :)

Thank you!
Joey

Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Al Turtle on Fri 04 Jul 2008 12:21 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

Dear Joey,
Sorry to hear that you are in hard times. Still I tend to look back on my life and come aware that "hard times" were just "painful learning" times. All the great learnings of mine seem to arise from "throes of misery" - not that that may help you much.

I gather you are looking for evidence that my suggestions work. Seems a good question. And I gather you are wondering about whether people write back about their success. Also a good question.

I rarely get people to write back when all is great. That seems to take some time and a lot of work and I guess people just don't take the time to let me know where my words helped.

I do get people to write about "what next." Their letters sound a bit like this. "Your ideas really work. And now that my partner has stopped leaving and is 'sniffing' around me, what do I do next?" (I love that image of a dog sniffing around someone's leg. Seems to fit.)

I have not written a specific article to address that question, though I have talked with by phone and emailed with many on the subject. Actually the answer is the same for the situation where "you woke up to trouble going on" before the leaving began.

My article of four steps does nothing. I've just found that the only things that work in that situation are those four steps. Remember, the person who is free to leave has all the power. Any "power" tactic won't work. So really, Joey, what I am saying is that you have very little choice, and here are four things that work.

Perhaps your note will inspire others to write. And thanks for the questions.

Al

Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by EyesOnThePrize on Fri 04 Jul 2008 12:42 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

I'm planning to update my tail in the near future. I saw my ex for the first time last week since she moved away almost 3 months ago. I'll say that the principles I've learned in this article have challenged me, and at the same time I think I've made a lot of progress, and my ex does appear to have stopped moving away and I am seeing signs that may be indicating she wants to return. Most of all, though, following these principles have allowed me to work on me, and I'm mentally in a much better space now.

Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by CH on Sun 06 Jul 2008 10:21 AM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

I have a question related to your article and this is really directed to Al, but I wouldn't mind any other imputs as well: I have "convinced" my girlfriend to stay with me several time, only to get back to the old patterns and have the "I am leaving you" hanging by my neck. She left again, I did my part to push her. Now I want to do things right and wait so she is the one who wants to be with me. I love her and she said she loves me too. I have kept the communication to a minimum, and I am actively working on myself. It must be working because I find myself more content with myself. What I want to know is, when is the right time to make that first attempt to talk?

Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Al Turtle on Mon 07 Jul 2008 08:20 AM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

A couple of thoughts come to mind.

How much is "talking" or "over-talking" part of why she is "leaving?" If your talking or chatting style drives her away (mine did), then you are probably going to have to come up with a whole new way of talking - called "mostly listening:" perhaps mirroring, pulling, definitely PreValidating and Validating where you can, basically empathic interviewing.

Next thought is that you are going to have to give up the idea that there is a solid "right" anything. In this case "right" is probably what works - after you have done it. One way out of this dilemma is to ask her what is right for her. This is all about giving her sovereignty, respect, and autonomy.

My suggestion is that you give it several weeks. Move into action if she reaches out to you. Tell her you are working on better communication skills. That should take ONE sentence. Repeat it if necessary. Invite her to talk, and practice listening skills. Answer her questions in one sentence if you can. Keep it short. Be ready to cut the talk off gently at the first sign that she wants to get away.

If she doesn't reach out to you in two weeks, try a one line note (email, card, etc.). "Missing you." or something like that. If no response, wait another two weeks and try again. If no response, try a one line note in a month. If no response, use the process in Getting An Answer.

Just some thinking.

Re: Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by CH on Mon 07 Jul 2008 11:05 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

Thank you for your answer. I really apreciate it. There's a lot more work i need to do on my own and I would definitly wish I could do it with her. I am afraid of being rejected to be honest. My impulse is to seek her out and "explain" why want to be with her. in other words, to cling. To convince her. On one hand I am sure 100% that I love her and on the other hand my brain tell me that if she is unhappy with me then I need to love her and let her go. I am learning a lot right now, I intent to keep working on myself. I read the process in getting an answer and I think it is good sound advise, but at the same I find it very scary. My many thanks for the response.

Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by SweetTheSting on Wed 09 Jul 2008 11:53 AM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

Al,
I think I'm confused--I know the goal is to become a source of safety for your partner, even as they are leaving, or have already left. This makes great sense--I've read the map, reliable membership, biological dream, and so on. (All wonderful and insightful, by the way.) But what do you do if your now-former partner already has another source of safety? Should you still try to become a source of safety to your ex if they are already with someone else? Wouldnt this be counterproductive?

Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Al Turtle on Wed 09 Jul 2008 01:52 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

Good question, (by the way, I love the names people have for themselves. SweetTheSting is cool.)

I like your last word, "counterproductive." It reminds me of the question, "Just what is it that we are all trying to produce?" You probably know that my answer to this question is turning the Biological Dream into a living reality.

And so, looking at your question, what have we got. A partner who left because we/I/you didn't know how to effectively lead in the directon of Vintage Love. A distant partner who may think they have the Biological Dream with a new partner.

How valuable is it for you to learn the skills of making a partner feel safe? How valuable is it for you to learn how to be a source of safety? Those skills a transferable to any partner, even friends and associates. I think those skills are vital no matter what your situation.

Now, what about this (ex-)partner of yours? As long as they are with another person, there is not much you can do except improve yourself. Remember that their journey with another person is long and difficult. Try the Map of Relationship on what they are doing right now. Could be they are comparing a Romantic-Love-partner (new person) with a Power-Struggle-partner (you). Not much comparison. Stick with Romantic Lover ---- until it ends! And it always does.

Then how about the comparison of a Power-Struggle-partner (their new partner) who isn't working on themselves compared with a Power-Struggle_ partner (you) who is visibly improving themselves, who is leading toward Vintage Love. Looks better for you.

I try to avoid the arena of "when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em." That decision of moving on is up to you. But I would suggest that no matter what things look like, learning new skills is never counterproductive.

Good luck.

Al

Re: Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by SweetTheSting on Thu 10 Jul 2008 04:35 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

Thanks, Al. Makes a lot of sense now. Oh, and I wish I could take credit for the username, but I can't. It's the name of a song by Tori Amos. Thanks again for the response.

Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by JS on Mon 14 Jul 2008 08:41 PM PDT | Permanent Link

Hi Al,

I love your site! The four steps seem like a great plan. I've been trying to do them for a couple of weeks or so, and I think I screwed up pretty bad already. It seemed like the plan was maybe working very slowly or at least not making things worse, and then I found out I got a new job. I was excited, and he's been my best friend for so long, I emailed him to tell him I got it, and to thank him because he was the one who encouraged me to try for it. And (whoops) I dropped an "I miss you" in there. The response was very nice and he sounded excited for me, but it sounded sort of formal and definitely ignored the "I miss you" and the reference to him supporting me. I know he's been having a rough time (not with our break-up, from the looks of it, but with his life in general) and I'm worried me telling him about my success made him feel worse, and like he was right to be apart from me. My "lizard" as you call it, is panicking that I undid all my progress. I'm assuming I shouldn't write back, but another part of me wants to tell him how I know I crossed a line, and how hard I'm working to fix it. Then again he probably wouldn't want to hear I'm trying to "fix" anything, because it doesn't sound like "us" as anything more than casual acquaintances is in his mind at all. That has me completely freaking out too. And even writing him is probably crossing another line by invading his space again. I don't know what to do, because I so love this man and want to learn the tools you teach, but it's so frustrating to feel like I keep screwing everything up.

Thank you for your help,
JS

Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Al Turtle on Tue 15 Jul 2008 08:11 AM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

Oh. wow.

Thanks for letting us in. This sounds so much like a Lizard gone wild with a bright clinger brain to fuel it. I have often said that "fast thinkers" can really scare themselves in a relationship, if they do not have a superb communication system, if they live in a "fact void." This sounds like an example. A small clue, a very fast vivid imagination, a lizard observing all those "pictures," and that lizard picking the worst/scariest to believe.

Gotta calm that lizard first of all. Anything you can do to self-soothe seems in order.

Next you may be able, when calm, to notice how your email had "hooks" or "strings attached." You may not have consciously intended that, but a part of you expected a response to the "I miss you" or the "thanks." When the response didn't happen your lizard reacted. Oh, that sounds so much like my panicky lizard trying to grasp on to my wife. Had to give that up.

I think that people have, built into them, a bullshit detector. This BS detector instantly recognized "hooks" coming our way. Tis something to be recognized and dealt with. If I give my partner something, it really has to be a gift and "not a piece of bait." My clinger part is excellently skilled at "baiting hooks." Learned it as a kid. Still working on it.

In summary a) take charge of that lizard of yours and calm it and b) (long-term) move out of the fact void you live. Gotta fix that communication system you have with him. Long-term! The cool thing is that clingers have almost all the power to make the changes needed. Go for it.

Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Sarah on Sun 10 Aug 2008 07:55 PM PDT | Permanent Link

Hi Al!

Thank you so much for your site! Your method of what to do when someone leaves has worked great so far! I can't believe how much progress I've made (especially with pre-validating and validating people, and with learning to stay calm), and my ex is sniffing around again, although I definitely haven't gotten my relationship to the promised land yet. I have to say, improving my mental health is a lot less stressful than I thought it would be, and every day I feel more peaceful than the last.

One of our big problems before was that I was exhibiting typical Clinger behavior, and I've been doing much better at that lately, if I do say so myself. Problem is, now he's cool with going out occasionally for friendly drinks, but he's being super flaky. We went once and had a great time, then spent a week or so out of touch. Then I asked if I could buy him a drink for his birthday, he said yes and sent me a fairly long, chatty email. Last week he proceeded to postpone our drinks three times (granted, each time he had an excuse, but the excuses came about two hours before we were supposed to meet...). He then had promised to email to reschedule again yesterday, but he didn't do so.

I, trying to be a good space-giver and listener, sent him an email and offered that if he wasn't comfortable it was perfectly ok with me to not go and he should just let me know if when he felt like going, and he just wrote back a light-hearted response about how he was sorry, he'd just forgotten to email me because he got busy, and he'll write me again soon to reschedule. I know he's keeping plans with other people, so it seems something is up.

I'm guessing he either A) isn't ready or wanting to see me but can't/won't admit it, or B) is on some level compensating for the times when I was pushy by jerking me around now. There seems to me to be some Master/Slave going on here as I learn to give him space and am now maybe too accommodating, and he in turn walks all over me. So my questions are: 'how do I establish the boundaries here and get across to him that I'm not ok with this without sounding like I'm reverting to being pushy and controlling and setting up rules?' and 'What the heck could he be doing?' I tried inviting him to share what was up with me when he's ready, but got nothing in response.

Thank you!
Sarah

Re: Re: What to do when He/She Leaves?

by Al Turtle on Tue 12 Aug 2008 07:39 AM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link

Dear Sarah,
Thanks for the feedback and the compliments. I always learn a bit from letters like yours. I hope the learning is mutual.

After having been a clinger for a long time (remember, you are not a clinger when alone,only when someone else is present and acting in an avoiding role) your partner may follow some very interesting paths to "recovery" from their pattern. Keeping up with where they are moving next is often quite a chore - probably very long term. If you learn to make it "interesting" for yourself rather than "annoying," I think you will be better off.

What can make it so is the principle of PreValidation and Validation - that All People Make Sense All The Time, and that People Make Sense Before They Open Their Mouths To Tell You About It. This allows you to take their "new" behavior or their "shift" in behavior as a thing to be curious about, kind of like a plot twist in a detective novel. "Wonder what shift led him/her to do that?" Be reassured that the answer is always eventually there even if your partner can't explain themselves for a long time.

Using this method of "relaxing myself as I witness my partner's journey" I find that avoiders really often do things automatically without awareness. They, like us all, are driven by factors inside themselves that they don't YET know. A bit frustrating, but a good opportunity to practice patience - very educational.

Now, as to setting up boundaries. I find them a reliable requirement of living, and not something that you need help from your partner. Your boundaries are about you, not about your partner. Personal Boundaries are awarenesses and skills that are just simply necessary. Your partner doesn't need to be involved in either your learning or your practice of the skills. If you do well, they will pick up what you are doing. They have not choice.

On the other hand, modeling boundaries and practicing not invading their boundaries some of the time, is an art. You see, for them to learn to manage their own boundaries, someone has to try invading them. They need practice, too. You could, probably will, give them that practice. In a way, you want to stand alongside them while someone else invades them and make gentle suggestions as to how to handle it. You don't want to encourage them to depend on you to protect their boundaries. That way they don't learn.

If "he walks on you," that is your problem. Don't ever let him do that. But be careful. I've certainly met people who said, "My partner is invading my boundaries when he doesn't talk to me." or "He is invading my boundaries when he changes his mind at the last minute." Boy, is that confusing.

If he decides to be inconsistent, or cancel late, start planning for this. Prepare yourself for this behavior. All People Are Chronically Disobedient. Learn To Live With It.

Your work sounds good.

Al

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